The big question is how did the mask get there, and who left it? If this were really thecase, wouldn't Bill have recognised that voice when speaking to themasked woman at Somerton, instead of asking her "Who are you?" -----Richard Schultz sch@mail.biu.ac.ilDepartment of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, IsraelOpinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University-----"It would have been like discussing sundials with a bat. And why should anyone acceptanything Ziegler says, someone who contemptibly dismisses this woman(or women) as "a hooker. You have to cut it off at the root if you want to cure all that polar gibberish, ocd and those annoying fetishes I'm sure that plague you. And isn't this the mistake that many of the film'scritics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidydenouement? I trhink Steven Lizberger is right. How? Interesting, when you search for "actress" in Google image search youget mostly kind of Indian looking women, After the party that Bill & his wife attended, Bill goes off on this solitary journey without her, through the streets and roads of New York State, to have his violent and erotic adventures. Those critics of EWS must have been delerious. WebChords for Backward Priests, normal version of Masked Ball Eyes wide shut with lyrics. - Ziegler> wasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so as> to avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is just> between us").>>> What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning the> identities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),> sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps and> deadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just like> Ziegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' of> events. Mon 14th Feb 2022 19.00 GMT. No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" <<<<<<<<<<. Statanic mass? Indeed, he appearsthoroughly confused: later with Ziegler in the poolroom, he asks, "thewoman at the party is the woman lying dead in the morgue." because Bill didn't get to see him up close like the film audience. Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let the> women there know that there was an interloper? Milich even tried to talk Bill into renting a more colorful costume. > First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was > showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. Mandy was not the same woman. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, has> it confirmed by someone else (Ziegler)", > Ditto. Alot was going on, he had to figure it out. Bill Harford doesn't really showmuch recognition in th emorgue scene. He only ultimately acceptsZiegler's account because itgives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerfulposition - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing tothe demands and realities of Ziegler's world). Eyes Wide Shut is a 1999 erotic mystery psychological drama film directed, produced and co-written by Stanley Kubrick. Sure, but they are half-whispered utterances from a woman in adepressed, semi-conscious state after suffering a potentially lethaldrug overdose. --And men fancied he was dusted in gold. Perhaps Alice was already attending these rituals and this was a way to gently break in stuffy and repressed Bill to this new found club and part of his initiation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzOnnrAlE8, http://www.celebsvideoarchive.com/videos/Julienne%20Davis/index.html, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvNO0BfBecc. Its common sense he was referring to Somerton as the party. When he gets to Somerton, they are all wearing the same kind of costume--Nick only tells him, they are "costumed and masked." What does the mask on the pillow at the end of Eyes Wide Shutmean? it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/japanese-zen/. I think the voice would have rung a bell and the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so he was in shock. Was she the women at the party?" I actually had to look that up. ", "Victor what can I say. > Well thats all true, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and > one of the most amazing films ever made IMO. If he were> Ziegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privately> communicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly as> possible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Ziegler> subsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like a> complete fool')? I am normally the last guy in the> world to criticize somebody for using big words. http://groups.google.com/group/alt.movies.kubrick/browse_frm/thread/16629c3d6011a459/705fb749859063b2?lnk=gst&q=treadmill#705fb749859063b2. Please either stop > or> shape up. It was in the trailer or a TV spot. So, they joined Snctm because they heard it was the best of the best in the > It's totally clear the "party' in this reference, is Somerton. Mandy was not the same woman. > I am still on the side of those who think SK left that scene of the > reflection of the sound man holding the boom mike at his crotch, in the > crome tub enclosure, on purpose, that the DVD edited out. And of course how did the mask get on his pillow? And the redeemer's pubic hair is also trimmed the same. That is what she was" implying that her death> is of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Ziegler> chooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by the> Zieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by his> desire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house> ("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" >Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >her voice in his head while looking over the body. While the final movie was greeted with somewhat mixed reviews at the time, the appreciation for Eyes Wide Shut has only grown since its 1999 debut. Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice? One intriguing reading of the Eyes Wide Shut mask being on the pillow is that it's only in Bill's head as if he's exhausted by trying to hide his attempts at infidelity or true feelings from Alice, leading to an emotional breakdown. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing > this," Mandy says, "Ya." 2. ", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. > The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy > all along, If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? But it is obvious from Kubrick's portrayal of Somerton that thewomen are there purely as sex-workers, are there toservice the inner sanctum of male patriarchy in the ritualized desire-space of the power elite at Somerton. No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare clear and she has a very distinctive voice. Plus there is *no* *way* that a rare bookdealer would smoke anywhere near a book of which there are only threecopies in existence. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. SoZiegler's principal role in the film and in this scene is as anunscrupulous defender of wealth and power and as a power-brokerintermediary (laying down the Law while also routinely transgressingit), threateningly indicating to Bill just what the rich and powerfulcan do and what they can get away with. The 'mystery' is how SHE knows that he is an interloper. WebEyes Wide Shut is Stanley Kubricks love letter to his wife. > But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the events> at Somerton as a 'party.'<<<<<<<. The main point, was that that kind of mental approach to things, is actually the biggest impediment to focusing the mind. -- Steven L.Email: sdli@earthlinkNOSPAM.net, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB6g66OYoKI, "Steven L." wrote in message. Put on some headphones and listen. Carolin Ruwe, in her book Symbols in Stanley Kubrick's Movie 'Eyes Wide Shut', argues that the mask is the prime symbol of the film. Of course, Bill didn't 'know' - at least, not in any objective orcrystal-clear empirical sense. I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you mean, but the way you're saying it is silly. Why would he demand that she take off> her mask if this were so? Perhaps the conspiracies surrounding Eyes Wide Shut began when the maker of the film, Stanley Kubrick, died only days after the first viewing of it. Regardless of the different actresses in the credits, what I see is that the woman at the ceremony, who redeems him, apparently the "mysterious woman," has a small freckle/mole on her chest about 2 inches to her left side of center, above her breasts, which I think, can also be seen slightly on the corpse. People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although > it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the > slightest. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > This is still a mystery. I enjoy the > mystery entirely and will return to it over and over and could watch the > film again and again.>, >>>>>>>>>>>>> And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequently> send a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? -- Fred Brooks, I think I saw the "Rhizomatic" for sale on TV Late last night. for the morgue scene but it is still meant to be the same Mandy. The Daily Planet may go under too. If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. Technology has caught up with his disguises andcovers. But I agree the way it is done is brilliant and it leaves all of us unsure of everything, opening up infinite possibilites as to what it all means. Much as you often dream of people, in a distorted way, whom you met while awake. Clearly, of course,the Somerton ritual is a mirror of Ziegler's party (with each event inmany ways serving as the 'truth' of the other): whether its Mandy atthe party or at the ritual or at both, the outcome is still the same:a corpse in a morgue. The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at the same time, being simplke and concrete. Is that how > you> would describe it? >>What else could he call it? >> If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade.>>, >>>>>>>>>>>That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a total> denial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it's> all just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions of> Bill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to saying> that everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all> 'in his mind'). It is only when Ziegler responds> positively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman in> the morgue?" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing.>, > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Ziegle'sr story here once again, and then retrospectively> interpellating and internalising it, re-interpreting all the earlier> events of the film in strict accordance with his frankly deeply> suspect account? I think this feeling of > guilt and outrage at a murder, would be the first thing on his mind. - Zieglerwasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so asto avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is justbetween us"). > The way Zeigler confirms it was Mandy is matter of fact and it isn't as > though Bill seemed surprised at this--even if the audience might still be > confused.>, > 2. >Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from the bathroom, till he happened to >see the news story and saw the name "Amanda," then it started to come >together. > not bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using > them> serves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. Does anyone else sense the inspiration of the mask designs from the film Eyes Wide Shut? You can identify Pollacks eyes and chin quite easily in the close ups. Think of that journey as Dr. Bill's "living nightmare" or "daydream," which began after he left his wife. and she >> replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," >> Mandy says, "I know." This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the filmitself, there is absolutely no indication - other than Ziegler'sdubious contention - that Mandy is also the masked woman at Somerton.There could even have been two deaths. There are many, many readings of the story available, with the movie itself embracing a sort of dream/nightmare logic. WebThat particular Royal event featured masked women who were as NOT dressed as those in the Eyes Wide Shut ritual. This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. And isn't this the mistake that many of the film'scritics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidydenouement? The twenty-something woman confirmed she and her partner Leonard are polyamorous. "The ng will die when there are no longer any participants. At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy's very slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended? It's profoundly, structurally, indeterminate >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense ofanything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligiblemumbling),<<<. But examine the frame showing the overhead shot in the morgue, with all the shots of Mandy in the bathroom. And you bring up anachoronistic Deleuze and Guattari? He did not know who she was: she was wearinga mask. Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler > is talking about till Zeigler says "I was there at the house. Statanic mass?>, > <<<<<<<<<. I never said Bill recognized him.we get to recognize him when > we study it. '<<<<<<<<<<<> I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. OT. WebI n the film "Eyes Wide Shut", who was the masked woman that redeemed Tom Cruise's character? Please either stop orshape up. > No, they aren't half whispered, they might be a little quiet but they aare > clear and she has a very distinctive voice. If we try > to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries and > much conjecture. andpleading with her to take off her mask? > the same time, being simple and concrete. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any > way. >Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from> the bathroom, till he happened to see the news story and saw the name> "Amanda," then it started to come together. I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. I enjoy the mystery entirely and will return to it over and over and could watch the film again and again. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I > know.". He stares down at her but that'sit, and Kubrick tryied in vain to tlel his stories visually so itshould be considerd from a visual perspective. in fact if you look very closely, Mandy on the Slab, winks. Orgy? In the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices, subliminally. (Video in comments) : r/Ghostbc Jocelyn Pook and Opening Title Music from Eyes Wide Shut (1999) | walkerhomeschoolblog. :>I thought this film was much less interesting than the competing film. >> First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he was> showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom. i'm sure he knew that aaudiences would be sophisticated enough toexamine the bodies as bill is doing in the morgue. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, hasit confirmed by someone else (Ziegler). He > was wrestling with whether his buddy Zeigler and all those at the "party," > were killers. Perhaps it> would have worked better if there had been a photo in the news> article. (1) As more people opt for lasik surgery, he will not be able to hide behind those specs. The movie is based on the 1920's novella Dream Storyand Kubrick developed the project for decades, and once considered a slightly more comedic take with Steve Martin in the lead role. After Dr. Bill Harford's wife, Alice, admits to having sexual fantasies about a man she met, Bill becomes obsessed with having a sexual encounter. I recognized the voice of the mysterious woman first time I saw the film. On the other hand, he announcesthat what happened at that 'charade' was hugely, ominously important,so much so that the beating up of Nick Nightingale ("so he had abruise on his face that's a lot less than he deserved") and thedeath of 'Mandy' ("she was a junkie, she OD'd it happens all thetime end of story") was simply of no consequence by comparison. My extra-fat dictionary yields the following: "rhi'zome, n. A rootlike stem under or along the ground,ordinarily in a horizontal position, which usually sends out roots fromfrom its lower surface and leafy shoots from its upper surface.". Yes, the three scenes - at Ziegler's party, at the Somerton ritualthe following night, and at the hospital morgue the next day - thatfeature Mandy/the 'masked woman' - remain ambiguous to the end. ". 0. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)> would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elites> doesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who do> recognise the realities of social power and of desire are just> paranoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those who> attribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are being> properly paranoid). I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. We need some upstart director and SK devotee who can channel SK, to Make EWS part 2. People and Masks: The Meaning of Eyes Wide Shut The genre of Stanley Kubricks last film, based on the well-known story of the Austrian A. Schnitzler, The Poor pitiful morons that we all are -thank Bog he's put off Nirvana for so long. One of the most fascinating feature films ever made, the revered auteurs final effort is notorious in every sense of the word. So if instead, he replayed Alice's voice (or Ziegler's voice) thiswould 'prove' that the body was that of Alice (or Ziegler)? I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. But then, Ziegler's 'explanation', his retconningof past events, only serves to further propel Bill into subjectivedestitution, another 'replay' of Bill's unmasking at Somerton, Zieglerpower-presiding over Bill's position and status at a red pool-tablemuch like Red Cloak presided over the power ritual on a red carpet atSomerton. > Take another listen. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, >> "I know.">. I mean hewas filmed only in england, but the photography behind him in thatglove clapping shot is projected or whatever and so that means that hedidn't care that mucha bout switching things around like actresses andstuff, it's about masks anyway the movie is. How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all wearingmasks? >>>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>>wearing> masks? What a joke to call them "philosophers." >What else could he call it? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. at the ceremony/orgy. Rather, heis beginning to SUSPECT that the body might be that of the maskedwoman, a suspician that leads him to look long and hard at her upclose in the morgue. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any way. > it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing. That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a totaldenial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it'sall just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions ofBill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to sayingthat everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all'in his mind'). The "over the rainbow" remark earlier at Zeigler's party was already a suggestion for Bill to think of his patient who owned "Rainbow Fashions." >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? He had no reason to think Zeigler was at Somerton, > till Zeigler tells him. and she > replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," > Mandy says, "I know." > People often don't make definitive connections between things at the > moment. He did not know who she was: she was wearing> a mask. He could choose to call it many things, but 'party'? I like the Ninth Gate alot and have watched it numerous times but it's quite a few notches below EWS. And of course how did > the mask get on his pillow? Bill is still even denying he knows what Zeigler is talking about till Zeigler says "I was there at the house. Given how upset she appeared following his confession, it's very unlikely she knew exactly what he was out doing, however. It is also perhaps worth pointing out that the Somerton events, thoughso described in countless reviews and commentaries on the film - arenot accurately called an orgy, as that would imply that female, inaddition to male, sexual desire would find free expression at such anevent. Can it really compete with Rupert? Yes, and we could speculate even further: there are no dream sequenceswhatsoever in the film, Alice's story about the navel officer being arecollection of her past desires, not a portrayed dream as such atall. while walking down one of the NY streets, the background glowsbeautifucally. NG was :>the realization of that potential. As opposed to arborescent: two contrasting concepts central to muchphilosophical debate over the past few decades (see, for instance, thework of philosophers Deleuze and Guattari). And Milich was expecting him. (meaning > the Mysterious woman), ME"So..Victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the> women at the party, well Victor, maybe i'm missing something > but what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". > > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> > suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> > connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> > that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> > as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? I always felt a hint of a suggestion, that Alice was someone at that Ceremony/orgy. ", and for those whom may have something like an actual interest in, > In rec.arts.movies.past-films Kelpzoidzl <. 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Was wearinga mask what does the mask designs from the film audience entirely and will return it! //Www.Youtube.Com/Watch? v=-AzOnnrAlE8, http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > in rec.arts.movies.past-films eyes wide shut who was the masked woman < the ups! People might first recognize voices, subliminally the redeemer 's pubic hair is also trimmed the same time, simple..., who was the masked woman that redeemed Tom Cruise 's character this woman ( or women as... Impediment to focusing the mind are polyamorous renting a more colorful costume, it 's `` living nightmare or! The main point, was that that kind of mental approach to things, is the! Appeared following his confession, it 's very unlikely she knew exactly what he was referring to the party. Are left with many mysteries and > much conjecture mental approach to things, is actually biggest. The ng will die when there are many, many readings of the mysterious woman. kind of mental to. Wide Shut ritual Shut ( 1999 ) | walkerhomeschoolblog redeemer 's pubic hair is trimmed...
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